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when you have children, you give up so much of who you are, right? Especially when you become a first time mom, like nobody tells you that part, but like nothing is yours anymore.
Your time, not your own, you know, your hairstyle, not your own. Everything is gone. And for me, taking back a little bit of my sense of self. Through wearing clothes. I like to wear helps me keep that part of me. That is more than just a mom. I think our kids need to know that we are people, This right here is one of the reasons why I decided to bring Jennifer Mackey Mary from everyday style onto the today show she's a master stylist. Who's helped thousands of women build wardrobes that make getting dressed fun and easy. When we become moms, we lose so much of ourselves, but choosing clothes that fit our style is a great way to maintain a bit of ourselves. In this episode, we're going to learn how to build a capsule wardrobe.
And if you don't know what that is, stay [00:01:00] tuned because Jennifer is going to share with us. How we can put together stylish outfits that not only allow us to be a full expression of ourselves. But let us live the life that we want to be living. Welcome to moms without capes the podcast where you'll get practical strategies for reclaiming your sense of identity within motherhood. I'm Ani Michalski.
And my goal is to help you prioritize your needs. And carve out space for yourself so that you can discover who you are beyond your role as a mom. As a mom who wanted to go to a Zumba class. But for the longest time, couldn't figure out how to not feel guilty about doing something that didn't revolve around my family.
I'm here to tell you that I figured it out. We moms need to get ourselves on our to-do list and we need to do things that we enjoy and that are good for us. I've discovered that this is the key to not losing ourselves in motherhood. Over the years of raising half a dozen kiddos, I can confidently hang up my supermom Cape. And now I want to help you do the [00:02:00] same. This is the moms that capes podcast.
I love style. I love when you find those clothes that light you up, that make you smile, that make you excited to get dressed. Like that is so cool to me. And when you know what works on your body and what doesn't, you can hone in on those pieces and you're not just settling for like, well, this nondescript tent fits me and I guess it doesn't look terrible, like.
That's just a terrible way to go through life.
I never meant to be a stylist. This was not my dream. I didn't plan a career in clothes whatsoever. But my early career in the restaurant industry, I was a corporate trainer. I opened restaurants all around the world.
And, um, in 1999, I moved from Minnesota where I'm originally from to Washington, DC for a job. And I just, I wasn't happy. I was looking for something else. And. One day Chico's called me, you know, Chico's the clothing store for women of a certain age, let's say. And, um, they were [00:03:00] looking for someone and I was like, well, I don't know.
Why not? Right. I was looking to get off the road a little bit. I was, you know, looking for a little bit more normal life. So I went to work for them. And the very first day that I worked at Chico's everybody, when they start there, you learn how to dress the four body types. And for me, it was an absolute revelation.
Yeah. Growing up, I had a really difficult body to dress and I didn't understand why clothes didn't necessarily work on my body the same way they worked on my friend's bodies. Right. And I thought. Well, if I just lost a little bit more weight, but I would see friends that were like bigger than I was, but they were wearing these styles.
And I thought, well, if I worked out more, but I, I'm pretty good shape. So I couldn't figure out like my pants never fit me in the legs. If they fit me in the waist and why the butt was always too big. And that day, the first day I worked there, I learned that my body shape is just an apple. Like it's not weird.
It's not malformed. It's not wrong. [00:04:00] It's just an apple. And I learned that the pants I was buying were never, ever, ever going to work. And in that moment, like I was set free. I was set free. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't have to be different at all. I just need to buy different pants. I can do that. That I can do.
And, uh, when I worked for Chico's, we didn't have mirrors in the fitting rooms. And every woman is like. That would be the worst thing in the whole wide world. But think about it. How many times do you go into a store and you go in the fitting room all by yourself with arm loads of stuff and you just leave empty handed and sad because you don't know how to dress yourself.
Right? Like that's why we're all struggling. Cause we don't know how to dress ourselves. Every woman had to come out and there was a team of trained people for your body saying, okay, let's try a little bit shorter jacket, a little bit wider pant. Let's put a belt right here. Hey, we need a longer necklace.
Let's roll this sleeve. And women actually got the help they needed. And, you know, looking back on that, I'm like, that was really genius. Sadly, they don't do it anymore. And I think that's just [00:05:00] such a tragedy because women need that kind of help. But I dressed literally thousands of women, thousands of women.
And what a great practice ground, right. For, for going out on my own, eventually.
Oh, my goodness. Can you relate? I sure can. So many times I've entered a dressing room with my arms full of outfits and my heart full of hope only to leave feeling totally defeated. I've been in dressing rooms with my older daughters where they've cried. I know I'm not alone here, but I love how Jennifer said that it's not our fault. That we simply need to find the right pants for our body, that our body isn't the problem. This is so good. So while I peruse through Jennifer's website and social accounts, I was able to see a variety of styles in the wardrobes that her clients supported. But I was curious. How does Jennifer. Describe her own style.
I am not a fashion person. I don't have [00:06:00] a huge closet full of designer labels. I don't really, I don't care that much. My life is very, very casual. I mean, I have to close my window in my office because I hear the cows, right? Like this is not a glamorous life I am living.
So I know some people and you may know some too, that just seemed to be born with style no matter what they wear, they can pull it off. My sister is one of those women who wears items that I would never imagine wearing, and she looks dropped dead gorgeous in them. So I asked Jennifer is style something that we are born with. Or is it a skill that we can develop?
I was secretly hoping that it was something we could learn. Here's what she said. I actually think it's both. And the analogy I like to use is that my brother in law is an amazing cook. He loves to cook. If a recipe has like 25 steps, he is. In right. He loves to cook. He watches cooking shows. He tries new things. He experiments with ingredients.
He [00:07:00] loves to cook and therefore he hones his craft. I don't love to cook. I love to feed people though. Like that is one way I show love. So I have some recipes that I can make really, really well. And I love to invite people over and I like to feed them, but for me, it really isn't about the food or the technique it's about showing love.
Right. So I think there are people who are. Born with that style, gene, who, you know, they put things on, you're like, never would have put those together, but it works, right? There are those people and, and they get better because of that constant trial and error and not being afraid to just go for it and try something.
And then there are women who are like, I want to look good. I want to have that confidence. It's not about the clothes. It is about the result that you want from it, which is, I want to, I want to feel appropriate everywhere I go. I want to feel like my best. I want to feel confident, whether it's at work, going for a new job, my goodness, going to the park with your [00:08:00] kids.
And you know, all the moms are cute. And you're like, Oh, I just want to fit in. Right. Right. You can learn that. That you can learn. You may never get to the point where, you know, you would rather blow a thousand dollars on a pair of shoes that may never be your jam and that's perfectly okay.
But you can absolutely learn style. Absolutely. So maybe it's not necessarily a style intervention that we need as Jennifer shares in this next story. I had a client. She wrote on her little questionnaire that I give that she can't wear certain colors because her kids wiped their Cheeto hands on her. And I was like, Oh, uh, no, we are not having a style intervention. We are having like a mom intervention because no, your kids cannot know that you are a human napkin.
Like you need to hold that for yourself. When we dress nice. We feel good. There's just something about getting all dressed up and going out. But too often, we resort to yoga pants and a messy bun. [00:09:00] Simply because we don't feel like taking the time to put in the effort. But it's more than just trying to make ourselves feel good. Getting dressed in a style that fits us. Has more benefits than that. And I think that clothes, when, when you say I am worth it to invest a little bit of. Our family's resources on myself to feel good. I think, I think that is really good for your kids. I also think, and I know this sounds silly and frivolous. We're nicer when we like the way we look.
Yes. Right. I agree. Yeah. We're just nicer. I yell at my children less And if that's what it takes for me to yell less, then. Okay.
it turns out that when we take time to dress in something that makes us feel good, we're actually more productive. That we get more done in a day. And I remember, you know, when I had littles mine, mine aren't little anymore, but when I had littles and I'd get up in the morning and I get dressed, [00:10:00] cause we had somewhere to be, I was good to go the whole day.
If I needed to run to the grocery store for, you know, whatever ingredient I forgot. Okay, cool. Let's just pop out. If my kids wanted to go to the park, okay, let's go. But if you kind of spend the day, like frumping around and at three o'clock you say, oh, shoot, my kids want to go to the park. I need to get them out of the house or I need to go to the grocery shop.
You don't want to go. Right. You don't want to go. Cause it's so much effort and you're tired. It's so much effort. You know, and I tell moms get dressed before you leave your room for the first time in the morning. And every mom I've ever met and every woman's always like, I would do anything to get more time out of my day.
And I'm like, Oh, here's your, here's the answer. Get dressed. And it's like that meatloaf song. I would do anything for love, but I won't do that. The one thing they don't want to do, but I encourage women just to try it for a week, just try it and see how you get more laundry done. Like you're just more productive when you have your pants on.
And I'm not saying you have to be [00:11:00] uncomfortable. You don't have to put on jeans with a real button and zipper, but like when you put yourself together a little bit, you're off to the races. easier. So I really encourage moms at all stages to reclaim them, their sense of style themselves and you know, kind of set themselves up for a more productive day in life. Last year I had it as a goal to get a style. That's what I wrote on my vision board. Get a style. I looked up a quiz and sent the results to my kids saying, do you think this looks like my style? I don't even remember what they said. Honestly, I cleaned out my closet, Marie Kondo style, although not to her extreme. And I saved some images of women who were dressed in ways that I liked. But I don't think my own style changed much over the year. I wasn't really sure how to incorporate what I wanted into my wardrobe. How do us moms get style?
Here's [00:12:00] what Jennifer said.
Well, first of all, let's address the newborn phase because the newborn phase gets a pass on literally everything, everything, right?
Like you don't have to put on a blouse when you have a newborn. If you want to, it's fine. Now I will say that cute t shirts can get spit up on and be washed just as easily. As. Plain old dumpy t shirts. Right. So there are things you can do, but I think one of the easiest ways that you can commit to having better style is stop buying things you don't love.
Stop it. That's something I recently started doing. If I don't love it a hundred percent in the dressing room, cause there's things like, and I even started clear in my closet like that. Like if I don't love it, I've tried it on three times and every time I don't like it, like I take off. Why am I keeping it in my closet?
Yes, that, I mean, Committing to not wearing things you don't love, like that's kind of step two, you're at level 201. But the first one is just don't buy [00:13:00] more, right? Don't buy more stuff that doesn't light you up. That's a very easy one. So when you go to target, cause we all go to target and then we turn into the, you know, the clothing section, we throw a bunch of t shirts in the cart.
Don't do that. Don't do that. Only put those t shirts in the cart. If those are the most exciting t shirts you've seen in a really long time, right? Cause the chances are you really don't need more. You don't need more. And the other thing, you know, it's such like an old cliche to plan your outfits ahead of time.
It's such a cliche. And you know, it used to be for like working women and plan out your outfit ahead of time. So your mornings, you know why that was a thing? Because it's a thing. It's a thing. It's an action. It's like meal planning, outfit planning. No, but yes, yes. I actually tell women that it should be just like meal planning.
Nobody has the time or energy or bandwidth to be really creative with style in the morning. So you tend to just grab those few same [00:14:00] things that you wear over and over and over again, neglecting like 95 percent of your closets. So, you know, on Sundays or whatever. Look at the weather for the week and look at where you're going.
And then write down what you want to wear guaranteed. You're going to put together more stylish outfits. You're going to wear more of what you have, and you're going to feel better about the way you look. So what I was going to ask you about is one of the things like that. It seems to be in that. I see quite a few people do it is they kind of have like a standard, like almost uniform, like where they stick to like.
This is really basic, but like a white shirt and black pants, like they have them in different things. Like, do you recommend that? Is that something that you feel would be a time saver or? You know, I really think that depends on the person, the person and their personality, right? So that's the thing that Mark Zuckerberg does and a lot of successful people.
He does that. So that he doesn't have to make decisions about things [00:15:00] that are not important. But again, he's a guy. He's a guy. Women seem to have more, a little bit more flair, more pressure, whatever you want to call it to work for women as well. Um, so the idea behind that is to combat decision fatigue and to save your mental energy for things that matter.
And you know what, I'm all about that, which is part of like planning your outfits. That takes a lot less mental energy than trying to figure it out every day. So I think if you're somebody who likes that concept, go for it. Absolutely. 100%. I do think every woman, every woman I've ever met could get away with about 75 percent less stuff than she has.
Because if we're honest, that's what we actually wear, right? I
Ah, yes, the 80 20 rule. It's a thing. We were 20% of our clothes, 80% of the time. Since learning this I've noticed it's pretty true. In fact, at the beginning of this [00:16:00] year, I turned all my hangers backwards. And as I wear the clothes, I would turn the hangers the right way. Here we are almost halfway into the year. And the majority of my hangers are still backwards. You know, one of the products that I do are capsule wardrobe guides, where we show seasonally, like here is an, here's an entire wardrobe for a season. It's 40 pieces. Um, that's tops bottoms, dresses, accessories, like the whole thing. And here's how they all work together to make like 300 outfits.
Like it's crazy, but we reuse the same basics from season to season and year to year, so you're not buying all this stuff like for winter, which will come out soon. We put in a couple of fun colors for the season a couple of fun trends. So you're not like constantly reinventing the wheel to keep your wardrobe looking fresh and for people who can't totally commit to the, the uniform thing.
I think it's a really good half step. It's not like. I just love clothes and I love figuring out what to wear every day. [00:17:00] It's not quite that loosey goosey, and it's not quite as regimented as the other for a lot of women. It's kind of that middle ground, some guidance, not the gray area.
and what about all the clothes we hold on to thinking. When we lose the weight when we get invited to that one event or when we get the right shoes. What are we supposed to do with them? Do we get rid of them or do we just let them hang in our closet where we'll look at them and think. Someday.
Well, I'll throw out the challenge that I give to everybody if somebody can send me an actual calendar with. Someday on it, I'll send you a million dollars. I will find a million dollars, but I feel really confident throwing out that gauntlet because no one will ever find someday on a calendar, right? The question about what to do, especially in motherhood, that is the most common challenge that my women face.
The first thing you got to do is you got to get real about what, what a wardrobe is, a wardrobe is not. All of the clothes that are in your [00:18:00] closet and in your drawers. That is not your wardrobe. Your wardrobe is all of the clothes that you can and do wear. And I think everyone listening to this is like, Oh my goodness, you just took out 80 percent of my wardrobe.
I was like, really? Let's think about this. If I went to forever 21 and I'm at, you know, forever mid forties, If I went to forever of 21 and I brought the entire contents of that store home and put it in my closet, I don't have a bigger wardrobe. Do I? Right. It's not my style. I'm not walking around Farmville, Minnesota in a crop top.
These are things that are not happening. I don't have any bigger wardrobe. Your wardrobe is what you can and do where. So let's get honest about what we actually can and do where and. Clothes that don't fit, get them out of your line of sight. Get them out of their clothes that don't fit. [00:19:00] Mock you in the morning, but they don't motivate you during the day, right?
Nobody has ever been at lunch with a friend and, oh no, let's not do dessert. I have a pair of 1995 low-rise jeans that I wanna get back into . No, no. Nobody says that yet. Nobody says that. And then you open your closet in the morning, you're like, I have nothing to wear. None of this fits, and I'm a terrible person.
And why did I eat the cheesecake? Whoa. Let's just, let's, let's let a lot of that go by just getting them out of your line of sight. So those things that don't fit or that you're not wearing or that you're waiting for someday, you need to go and you have to ask yourself, if I could wear this, would I want to, if you are lugging around, You know, low rise jeans with a bling pocket, you know, a la Britney Spears, 2003, even if you could, would you know, they can go, they can go.
So get rid of all of that stuff and then box it all up, put [00:20:00] a date on that bin or that box. Give it a date, not a weight. I don't care if you give it three years in three years, you try that stuff on. If it doesn't work, let it go. Okay. You know, and that seems easy enough because we do seem to put a weight on it.
And of course, of course we do. So as you're, as you're. Boxing up your stuff, layer it. So the things that you could wear next are right on the top of that bin. The, you know, the, the tiniest, dittiest, bittiest, your most aspirational clothes, you can keep them, but they're on the bottom. You're not going to dig through those every few months.
You're just going to revisit them in six months, a year, two years, whatever you give it. And if they don't fit, let them go. But
most people, when they reach a new size or they've, you know, started a workout regimen, whatever you do, most people aren't like, Oh, I have some old Navy jeans from, you know, you want to go buy something new. [00:21:00] So. Now you have your old stuff and you have your new stuff and you're just kind of compounding the problem of too many clothes.
So the first thing you got to do is get it out of your sight.
Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yes. So many times I have tried on outfits and just felt so defeated. I think, well, I just don't like the way these bit right now. And then I hired them back up in my closet only to feel just as discouraged. Next time I try the same pants on. The worst is when we were about to go out somewhere.
And there's that time crunch. It's those times where I really wished that my closet reflected my current season and the things it contains, where my size, my style and made for who I am right now.
Life is meant to be lived. It is meant to be lived. You are meant to go places and interact with people and make memories and have experiences. And if going somewhere isn't fun [00:22:00] because you don't have the right clothes, fix the dang clothes. Right. Right. There's a quote and it's sort of my guiding star for my business.
And it's by, um, Diana Vreeland. She was a Vogue editor. And she said, it's not the dress. It's the life you live in the dress. But so many clients I've worked with don't have the dress or the pants or the shoes, whatever. So they don't have the life, right? Like that is so sad to me. Right. That is so sad to me because life is not about showing up and, you know, just showing off an outfit.
But I think as women, most of us can admit that to ourselves, we, it's more enjoyable when you like the way you look. Yes. It is less enjoyable when you feel self conscious, when you feel. Dumpy, frumpy, dowdy, whatever word you want to put there, wherever you are going is less enjoyable. I had a client skip [00:23:00] her friend's wedding because she had nothing to wear and didn't want to go shopping. Hold up right there. Can you relate? Because I sure can. Even as young as third grade, I felt this my uncle had passed away and I refuse to wear a dress and let's face it. It wasn't about the dress. I just didn't like the way I looked in the dresses that I had. Even a few years ago, my husband and I went to a bed and breakfast for an anniversary. And we are planning to go to a tour of a local winery. We ended up missing out on it because when I put the dress on, I felt like a sausage. The struggle is real.
I always find it really funny that when I was working with clients who really had some kind of clothing block, like, you know, do you like this? I don't know. Like, how, how do you not know if you like something, right? Does it make you smile or frown?
But when I would work with a really difficult client, I would just kind of casually bring the conversation around to moms and shopping and getting dressed [00:24:00] and boy, oh, boy. Boy, did the stories come out and I'm like, ding, ding, ding, we found it. Oh, your mom picked out your clothes till you were done with college.
Okay. That's why you don't know if you like things or not found it. as a mom of daughters. I have been very, very conscious. To break that cycle, to give them almost complete autonomy over what they wear, to encourage whatever ridiculous, I'm going to be quiet because they're right out the door, but I mean, they've gone through some ridiculous clothing phases, right?
They're girls. You know, my mom, I was a child of the eighties and we were looking at pictures and Oh my goodness. We looked ridiculous. We looked ridiculous. And I said, mother, how did you ever let us out of the house? And she said, well, you thought you looked great. Who was I to say different? That is like honest to God wisdom right there.
I don't ever [00:25:00] want to be the person that tells my daughters, like, you don't, that's not right. You don't look good just because it's not my style. Why is it wrong? It's not wrong. It's just what they want to wear, So dang important as a mom of five daughters, myself, there's oftentimes that I wanted to wear a sign around my neck that said she dressed herself today. But what Jennifer is saying hits home, we need to empower our own daughters to make their own choices when it comes to style so that they can decide what it is they like.
And don't like, We also need to give ourselves the choice to which means experimenting with our own style. I think we were raised in a different generation where. You had to dress up to go to the funeral.
You had to dress up to go to church. And I do think that there is a thing about we can show respect for people and things through the way we dress. I'm also convinced that. If my kids just willingly go to church, you can go ahead and wear jeans to church. Cool. I'm fine. That's great. Right. [00:26:00] You're going, that's the, you know, look at the bigger picture.
This is not the hill I'm going to die on.
Hopefully by now, you've caught on that leaning into your style through choosing clothes that fit you both in size and personality is a great way to take care of your soul and get back to who you are beyond your role as a mom. But I wondered how else does Jennifer practice? Self-care. First of all, let me say that. I don't think anything like I get my haircut, I get my nails done. I, that is not self care to me. That is like telling you air is self care, right?
Like breathing is not self care for me. That is just a part of what I do. It's a part of what I prioritize, not self care. I, because apparently my inner child is 80. I love jigsaw puzzles. I do puzzles like a, like a. A fiend. I'll do one a week. I love puzzles. It's just my quiet time. I'll turn on whatever [00:27:00] trashy true crime TV show that I can find.
And I just do puzzles. I love it. Nice. We've done jigsaw puzzles as a family. We'll bring them out and I'll be up like Midnight, like trying to find those pieces of like, I've got to get to bed. I've got to get to bed. By the way, birdwatching is my other thing because my inner child is 80.
since I'm a huge fan of books. I asked Jennifer what books she recommends that we can read to help us thrive in and out of our mom hat. playing big by Tara Moore. I think every woman needs to read this book. And I think that my daughters, I'm going to make them read it. My, my older one is 13 and she's probably ready.
I think a lot of women, especially women in my generation, I remember as a kid, it was a little bit of the, you know, be seen, not heard, weren't really encouraged to speak up. [00:28:00] That was not a skill that I developed in early in my career when I wasn't working for myself. I remember sitting in meetings, right?
And I would have an idea, but I wouldn't say it because I didn't want to be wrong or I didn't, you know, and so I wouldn't say anything. And then some dumb guy would speak up and say something kind of, you know, like my idea. That's genius. We should. And I was like, Oh, that was my idea. Why didn't I say that?
And it teaches women to speak up, to play bigger, to believe that we have a seat at the table, to stop listening to our inner critic and start listening to our inner mentor. And I'm telling you that book was absolutely transformational for me. Even when I started my business, I used to tell people, you know, people would say like, what are you doing?
I said, Oh, I, you know, I'm just a wardrobe stylist. Oh no. I just, I just. Help stay at home. There are a whole lot more people wearing GAP than Gucci. You know, there are a whole, like I have worked [00:29:00] with women crying in fitting rooms because they feel so terrible about themselves. And through the magic of pants, we transform lives.
So why am I downplaying anything about what I do? And really it was that book that, that helped me. Help me shift my perspective about what it means to speak up for yourself and to play big. I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did. If you'd like to find Jennifer and follow her, then here's where you need to go. You can find me on the interwebs at your everyday style. com. My business is everyday style, but my website is your everyday style.
On there. We have things, we have a body shape quiz. So if you're like, I don't know, apple, pear, rectangle, I don't know. We you're not a cumquat. I will just say that. Is that one of the styles? I don't even know what that looks like. I don't need. But you can go on my website and you can take that body shape quiz and you [00:30:00] will, you'll get a point to start at of, of how to dress yourself.
Um, and my podcast is the everyday style school and we teach you everything your mom never did about getting dressed. What, how close should fit what's trendy, what you need to ditch all that good stuff. Um, and then on, on socials, you can find me everyday style with Jen on both Facebook and Instagram, or you can just search everyday style.
And there I am. Check out the show notes of this episode, where you'll find all of Jennifer's contact info and social links, as well as a link to her quiz. I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy day to listen to this episode of the moms with that capes podcast. If you got any value from what you heard today, please go rate and review the show on apple or Spotify to help spread the love to other women who may have lost their sense of self. Since becoming a mom. And as always take care of yourself because you are worth it.
